tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6668594987436792920.post5197714384862183043..comments2023-07-05T08:17:21.505-04:00Comments on Getting to the Point: Why People Get Mad at the Church (One Reason...)Fr. Denis Lemieuxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01049723287624178155noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6668594987436792920.post-28716339876993657592012-07-15T16:09:03.199-04:002012-07-15T16:09:03.199-04:00Father Denis, I wish you peace and blessings, as w...Father Denis, I wish you peace and blessings, as well.Joseph D'Hippolitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15571554907399914529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6668594987436792920.post-17660176062409823102012-07-14T15:09:14.157-04:002012-07-14T15:09:14.157-04:00Well, I don't think my comments are all that t...Well, I don't think my comments are all that tepid, and my post (if you remember) was not about clerical sexual abuse. My reference to that issue said that that particular anger is a 'just anger to an intolerable injustice'! That's tepid? What do you want me to do - froth at the mouth? <br />My post was about the more general anger at ordinary human frailty and failures which, as a priest, I assure you is common, widespread. 'Fr. X was rude to me... Bishop Y closed our parish...' Priests and bishops doing stupid things and having the host of human failures we all have. People really get hurt about that, and that's what I was writing about.<br />So I'm not writing about what you're upset about. Ok... it's my blog! My blog post is called 'why People Get Mad at the Church (One Reason). I'm not claiming, in a single short post, to cover every reason for people's anger and I specifically say I'm not talking about the sex scandals.<br />Peace to you, and I'm sorry we can't seem to connect too well here.Fr. Denis Lemieuxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01049723287624178155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6668594987436792920.post-54748674733918750492012-07-14T14:06:49.453-04:002012-07-14T14:06:49.453-04:00Fr. Denis, I read your post the first time and re-...Fr. Denis, I read your post the first time and re-read it after your reply. I stand by my original comments. What tires me is the constant soft-peddling (as opposed to whitewashing) of human corruption w/in the Church. Again, people aren't perfect; that's why the Sacrament of Confession exits. Nevertheless, I re-state my original point: Nowhere in your post do you acknowledge that a holy, righteous God <i>demands</i> holy, righteous behavior from those who claim authority in His name.<br /><br />I suggest you contemplate the story of Eli, the high priest in 1 Samuel. When he met a grieving, broken Hannah at the tabernacle, he rebuked her for being drunk! Father, I've been both drunk and grieving; they are *not* the same! This same Eli failed to discipline his corrupt sons effectively; they were priests who stole more than their fair share of the offerings and encouraged religious prostitution.<br /><br />I believe the two reactions demonstrate how Eli's discernment was clouded by a complacency that resulted from his isolation not only from the people God ordained him to serve but also from that same God's demands for righteousness. In 1 Samuel 2, an unknown prophet told him that he and his sons would die, and that his family would become permenantly ineligible for priestly duties because of his complacency toward the things of God.<br /><br />How many bishops, let alone priests, are in the same situation?<br /><br />Of course, there are many good, kind, hard-working, devout priests. All too often, however, their first reaction to internal corruption is to provide cover for the ecclesiastical institution rather than to defend those exploited by it. That's not a uniquely Catholic problem, of course. But to those whom God has given much, He expects much. Sadly, Catholic leadership has long since forgotten that fact. Your tepid comments, sadly, do little to change the situation.Joseph D'Hippolitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15571554907399914529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6668594987436792920.post-19659406729319827142012-07-14T13:42:14.104-04:002012-07-14T13:42:14.104-04:00I'm sorry, but how is anything I wrote - anyth...I'm sorry, but how is anything I wrote - anything at all! - an excuse, justification, rationalization for bad clerical behavior? Really, did you read what I actually wrote or are you responding to what you think I wrote? I'm calling various unnamed priests and bishops drunks, fools, tyrants, bullies - do I sound like I'm whitewashing anything???<br />I fully and totally agree that the Church is to at least some measure reaping what we have sowed, although I may disagree with you on our specific failures and the extent to which that accounts for everything. But if we had been living the Gospel without compromise all these centuries, clearly the situation would be different.<br />I still believe my Church, with all its deep human failures, to be the Church Christ established. I will not deny or ignore the real holiness and virtue and love that has poured out of the hearts of thousands of its ministers and millions of its members. And I will be loyal to this Church to my last breath, and proclaim as best I can the truth of her teachings, even as I and everyone else in it fail to live by those teachings very well.<br />Bless you!Fr. Denis Lemieuxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01049723287624178155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6668594987436792920.post-47809809755336069352012-07-13T19:31:28.726-04:002012-07-13T19:31:28.726-04:00As an ex-Catholic, I get sick and tired of these e...As an ex-Catholic, I get sick and tired of these excuses, justifications and rationalizations for priests/bishops/etc. behaving badly. Of course, people are imperfect and always will be. That's really not the point. The point is that Christ calls <i>all</i> whom He has redeemed to holiness. Your post. Fr. Denis, fails to address that subject.<br /><br />Moreover, the Church is reaping what it has sowed: centuries of sacrificing its Petrine, spiritual patrimony on the altar of wealth, power, privledge, secular influence and a sense of permanent entitlement among the leadership. This is far from "imperfection," this is <i>de facto</i> self-idolatry!<br /><br />You talk about the Church being an instrument of salvation but not the Savior. Fair enough. But I remind you that many Catholics, even those who don't believe in "no salvation outside of the Church," view Protestants and Eastern Orthodox with suspicion, despite their own loyalty to Christ. Too many "neo-Catholics," for lack of a better term (such as Mark Shea), make Ultramontanism in political matters look like liberalism.<br /><br />You talk about freedom. Well, the Church (especially the Papacy) <i>has</i> stifled freedom <i>illegitimately.</i> Not until 1966 was the Index banned. That's well within my lifetime, Father. For centuries, the Church has effectively denied the fact that God created humanity in His <i>free</i> image. Obviously, that freedom was not meant to be used narcissistically or licentiously. Nevertheless, the Church has tried to dictate to the laity how to behave and how to think, instead of encouraging the Holy Spirit to be the Comforter and Advocate that He is designed to be.<br /><br />I suggest you read about the vision of Pope Leo XIII, the prophecies of St. Malachy, or anything written by Malachi Martin. The Church's future is not pretty. That future is divine judgement based on the apostacy of centuries.Joseph D'Hippolitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15571554907399914529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6668594987436792920.post-42130854508287507712012-07-09T21:56:31.075-04:002012-07-09T21:56:31.075-04:00Namely, to know that the Church is the instrument ...Namely, to know that the Church is the instrument of salvation, but not the Savior. The Church is the sign of salvation, but not Salvation Itself. The Church is the seed of the kingdom, but the kingdom is coming, not here, growing, not yet mature.<br /> <br />Father Denis,<br /> At dinner last night, my 10 year old said "Mom, what does God's voice sound like? I talk to him but I have not heard his voice". Sort of took me by surprize and I fumbled around for words and finally told her: God's voice sounds a lot like your voice sometimes, and sometimes your teacher, sometimes Rick, sometimes like me, and sometimes our priest...and I sort of carried on in this way...Then she said, taking her question farther, Mom if God sounds like all of us...how do you know for sure it is God's voice?<br /> I told her that it hard sometimes to understand God for those reasons and we talked about God calling Sammuel. <br /> She said, "I used to hear God sometimes when Father Joe blessed me". "sometimes I think I hear God at church." THen finally, "I think Father Tom and MH must help us hear God too, because they probably pray for us as much as we pray for them".<br /> So beautiful and fresh...a child's heart. So open and so full of love. The kingdom belongs to such as these.<br /> I have been sort of steeped in everybody's ideas of freedom these past weeks...expressions of both love and realism. The church it turns out, has a long history both of grace and of sin...and we who make up the church on earth, often don't do God very well. Nobody does, I guess. We all need to admit that more.<br /> But God chose the children, the imperfect ones, the still forming ones...so in a certain sense we already have a head start... Maybe, this time to really forgive the church for all its faults and see that they are really our faults too...and see why Jesus chose such an imperfect vechicle to carry on his prescence...<br /> An imperfect body...made up of people like you and me, full of sin, arrogant, fearful, selfish, miserly,cranky, tainted...but also full of grace, full of Christ, generous without limit, patient, gentle, generous, sincere...<br /> A group I keep choosing, a group worth dying for...Catherinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6668594987436792920.post-73176546544197990562012-07-09T14:56:13.564-04:002012-07-09T14:56:13.564-04:00oh dear! You are too true, Fr. Denis. Too true!oh dear! You are too true, Fr. Denis. Too true!Just Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04618223644413753047noreply@blogger.com